Message Boards for the CF Trust

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Emmie

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-Nov-2006

Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 16-Dec-2006 20:05

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OK this might sound really weird, but here goes...

I'm quite chesty as I have an infection at the moment. I laid down for a nap this afternoon as I was really tired and instantly fell asleep but kept becoming semi-concious of my head feeling really muddled and strange (yes more so than usual...) and feeling that I wasn't breathing enough but I was too tired to breathe deeper. So I kind of had this hour of deep sleep mixed with feeling I needed to breathe more but not breathing more and drifting in and out of sleep. I tried propping myself up a bit but it didn't make any difference.

Errr OK that made no sense! But it got me wondering whether it's possible to breathe too little when you sleep? I thought that your brain would naturally make you breathe in your sleep sufficient for your needs, but it definitely didn't feel like that was happening this afternoon.

Then I got to wondering whether this is why lately all my sleep is so muddled and full of weird vivid dreams. Because some friends of ours were saying that when they go travelling to places at really high altitude (like Nepal) they have really bizarre vivid dreams because of the lower level of oxygen there and apparently this is common. So now I'm thinking that if I'm not breathing enough when I'm alseep then my oxygen levels could theoretically dip and I could be having all these strange dreams as a result?

Does anyone know anything about all this stuff who can shed some light on this? Or am I talking rubbish?

Emma S

Posts: 59
From: Battle, East Sussex
Registered: 06-Nov-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 16-Dec-2006 20:12

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I know your breathing is 'shallower' when you are asleep, and if you are chesty then much of your lungs may be blocked, so you may well feel that you are a bit lacking in O2. Dont worry tho, your body is keeping tabs on it, and will adjust your rate/depth of breathing to compensate. I dont know about the lack of oxygen causing wierd dreams, but I know that when I am unwell one of the first signs is bad dreams, often before I show it - maybe the uncomfort in the body projects itself into dreams? also whenever Jasmine is on certain antibiotics she gets nightmares, especially if she is getting feverish.
They say that when you die you get amazing hallucinations - think thats why some weird people are into asphyxiation - tho DEFINATELY not suggesting thats whats happening here!!! - most probably you are a bit short of breath..
emma x

Tim Davies-Moss

Posts: 145
From: Shropshire
Registered: 06-Nov-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 16-Dec-2006 20:25

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the best thing to do.. is not to ever forget to breathe .. i did this once.. and its not good

Lisa90210

Posts: 43
From: Surrey
Registered: 02-May-2004

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 16-Dec-2006 20:50

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Hi Emmie sorry to here your a bit under the weather. It might be worth speaking to your team at the hospital and maybe having your oxygen levels monitored whilst you are sleeping. I had this done a while back, not too complicated just involved sleeping with your finger in a sats machine then the data downloaded the next day to see how low your oxygen levels went whilst you were sleeping. This is when they decided I should have oxygen overnight as my levels did go a bit low. I must admit when I started having the oxygen just overnight it really helped me have a decent night sleep without weird dreams!lol Might be worth a shot.

Anyway take care and speak to you soon.

Lisa

x

Angel

Posts: 491
From: London
Registered: 17-Feb-2004

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 16-Dec-2006 21:53

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hey Wemmit,

Remind me to chat to you about similar...thing when I next, well, chat to you as I can't be bothered to type it all out now and I am missing the X factor final (which obviously I don't watch but er...nevermind

)

xxxx

pinkgirl

Posts: 77
From: Ireland
Registered: 06-Nov-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 17-Dec-2006 12:44

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Hey Emmie

Sats go down when you sleep, I think, even in healthy people. Maybe not healthy people...But I remember as far back when I was 12, in hospital, and the nurse had to stick a snippet of o2 on me one night because my sats were only 89 (whilst asleep). And I was healthy back then too, so I'm guessing its a combo of infection and sleeep that could make you feel muddled..

SarahandWilliam

Posts: 6
From: Surrey
Registered: 01-Dec-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 17-Dec-2006 13:08

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Hi Emmie,
Sorry you are not feeling too good at the moment. Hope you pick up for Christmas! As you know, I do not have CF. Pinkgirl is right - funny things can happen in sleep, even in healthy people. I have pretty bad asthma and often experience exactly what you are describing when I have a chest infection or have had a couple of bad days - very trippy. I ditto what has been said about oxygen. I had some sleep studies some years ago and they found that I have a natural tendency to breathe too shallowly in my sleep and desat as a result, this may or maynot be associated with the asthma but it does get worse when my chest is bad but even when I am on totally top form my Sats are below 90% on air when I am asleep, even down to low 70s at times. I have had oxygen overnight for about 15 years now and it makes a huge difference. I reckon you should ask for a sleep study. Good luck and take care! lots of love Sarah and a big hug from William

xxx

Oli

Posts: 201
From: Milton Keynes, England
Registered: 12-Feb-2004

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 17-Dec-2006 13:28

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Hey Emmie - sleep and rubbishness is my speciality, so allow me to enlighten as best I can:

When we sleep, everyone's respiration rate drops from what it is normally, and our Oxygen saturations tend to drop too.

In normal people, this is obviously not a problem, but when we start with low SATs, it can be more of an issue.

There's 2 things to consider with your current situation, both worth talking to your team about.

1) O2 levels dropping: lower resp rate = less oxygen going in = lower SATs. Your body, ever mindful of the O2 levels in your blood, rouses you from your deep slumber to make sure you're resp rate is high enough to maintain good O2 levels.

2) CO2 levels dropping: when your resp rate drops and the O2 levels drop, it is possible for your Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels to rise, which can cause what is, in effect, "poisoning" you in a way. If you're waking up with a headache when you sleep, it's probably high CO2 levels.

The answer to number 1 is to use Oxygen when you sleep, the answer to number 2 is to use NIV overnight, which encourages deeper breathing and better air circulation in the lungs and moves the CO2 onwards and outwards.

Hope that's not all way too confusing. Give me a buzz if you want to talk it through in more detail and I'll be happy to oblige!

softie

Posts: 1,070
From: Croydon, Surrey
Registered: 07-Feb-2004

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 17-Dec-2006 16:38

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I seem to remember someone (possible AndrewH) mentioned that he had been put on prozac at one point because it changes the way people sleep, so helps to maintain better sats while allowing restful sleep.

I may be mistaken.

Richard.

Sweetpea

Posts: 83
From: Scotland
Registered: 09-Nov-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 17-Dec-2006 22:24

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Hi Emmie. I have problems sleeping too; lack of it at night and too much during the day. I find when I fall asleep during the night my breathing is shallow and I have the weirdest dreams. They seem so real. I think at times I hallucinate too. And it causes me to wake up quickly, sort of panting for breath. I am on O2 anyway but I know that if it drops when I have an infection then thats when I mostly get the weird dreams.

Sweetpea

Emmie

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-Nov-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 18-Dec-2006 10:47

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Thanks as always lovelies

Your advice has been really helpful. My team have been muttering about doing an overnight sleep study for a while but I'm waiting to get a port in so they were going to do it whenever that happens. However in the light of what I've been experiencing and the information back from you guys, I think I will try to get it done sooner if possible.

My daytime sats are usually good (95-96%) but they did drop a lot during my flight test so I have oxygen to fly now. I think though that I may be breathing too shallowly when asleep (thats certainly how it felt the other day when I was semi-concious) so theroetically my sats might be going a bit low.

If I can find a solution to the rubbish sleep experiences I'm having lately I'll be happy!

Thanks again xxxx

pinkgirl

Posts: 77
From: Ireland
Registered: 06-Nov-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 18-Dec-2006 17:15

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Emmie,

Just incase you don't want to wait for new port to do the sleep study, your team may let you do it at home. For me, I just brought the little wrist-watch like thingy home and wore it and then returned it the next day. If you can face two trips over to your hospital, and the traffic isn't too bad, it may be worth looking into

x

Emmie

Posts: 34
Registered: 06-Nov-2006

Re: Sleeping and Breathing (preferably at the same time

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Posted: 18-Dec-2006 19:06

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Thanks pinkgirl

I had wondered if that might be possible. I'm going up to the hospital tomorrow for clinic so I will ask about it

xxx